*本节目包含暴力内容 内容或对部分观众过激 未成年人需在指导下观看
With the slasher films
谈到砍杀电影时
the rock stars are the killers.
杀手们成为了巨星
You don't know what pain is!
你不懂什么是痛苦！
Everybody has this dark side
每个人都有一种黑暗面
that needs to be filled.
需要被满足
Wes used to call Freddy the bastard stepfather
韦斯曾称弗莱迪为我们所有人的...
of us all.
“混蛋继父”
This killer that can kill you in your dreams.
这个杀手能够在你的梦里杀掉你
Candyman.
糖果人
It doesn't get much scarier than that.
不会比这更吓人了
Be my victim.
做我的受害者
You're never gonna catch him.
你们永远抓不到他
Everybody's a suspect.
每个人都有嫌疑
I think the fun of "Scream"
我认为《惊声尖叫》的乐趣
is the self-awareness...
在于其自我认知
Oh, you wanna play psycho killer?
噢，你想演变态杀手吗？
And the deconstruction of the horror genre.
还有对恐怖类型片的解构
The entire audience
所有的观众
jumped out of their skin.
都吓得魂不附体
In a movie, we have a chance to...
在一部电影中，我们得以...
almost externalize the fears that we have.
将我们的恐惧具象化
Could I saw off my leg if I had to?
我能锯掉自己的腿吗？
We invented a whole new term.
我们发明了一个全新的概念
Torture porn became the cathartic release.
酷刑折磨电影成为了一种宣泄
You have to work with the dark side.
必须与黑暗面打交道
Horror is the only genre
只有在恐怖片类型里
where it's flattering if somebody says
这样的话才会成为恭维
"Ah, I couldn't watch your movie.
“啊，你的电影我看不下去”
Had to leave."
“必须离场”
Oh, my God!
哦，我的天啊！
We're not allowed to be scared anywhere in life.
在生活中我们不允许展现恐惧
You can't be scared at work. But for 90 minutes
工作中也不能害怕，但在这90分钟里
you can be afraid and not be a coward.
你可以尽情害怕而不被当作懦夫
时间轴/翻译：@黑路易
伊莱·罗斯的恐怖历史
砍杀电影 下篇
After John Carpenter's "Halloween"
约翰·卡朋特的《月光光心慌慌》
made box office history in 1978
于1978年创造了 历史性票房成绩之后
导演：约翰·卡朋特
《月光光心慌慌》(1978)
slasher films ruled the screen.
砍杀电影称霸银幕
But by 1984
*砍杀视频导致青少年暴力行为上升 *暴力过多
但到了1984年
audience fatigue and critical backlash
社会评论和观众的审美疲劳
*色情暴力导致犯罪
*砍杀电影——孩子们爱看 但部分电影引起专家担忧
had taken hold.
开始回潮
Slashers looked dead in the water.
砍杀电影看起来进入了搁浅的境遇
But the genre was only sleeping.
但这一类型只是在沉睡
导演：韦斯·克雷文
《猛鬼街》(1984)
I'm certainly not the first girl to play a woman character
我绝对不是第一个扮演
who fights to the death in a battle against a monster.
与恶魔拼死决斗的女性角色的
There will always be men and there will always be women
总会有男人或者女人
演员
代表作《猛鬼街》
希瑟·兰根坎普
who are, you know, forced to be that person.
会被迫成为逃命的人
So "Nightmare on Elm Street" is about a group of four kids
《猛鬼街》讲述的是四个孩子
teenagers, who realize
四个青少年，突然发现
that they've all shared the same nightmare.
他们做着相同的噩梦
Nancy...
南希...
you dreamed about the same creep I did.
你和我都梦见了同一个怪人
That's impossible.
那不可能的
And they don't really think anything about it
他们对此并没有多想
until each one of them, one by one
直到他们一个接一个
starts dying in their dreams.
在他们的梦中死去
No. No. No!
不，不，不！
No!
不要！
No!
不！
My character wants to figure out
我的角色想要搞清楚
like, why this is happening
为什么会发生这一切
who it is that's killing them.
是谁在追杀他们
And so the movie's about Nancy's quest
所以这部电影是关于南希的追寻
to discover Freddy Krueger
想要追查弗莱迪·克鲁格
and why he did it.
和他行凶的原因
He did it as an act of vengeance against
他以此作为对于那些
some vigilante parents
实施私行的父母的报复
who killed him in a boiler room.
报复他们在锅炉房中杀死了他
Who are you?
你是谁？
比尔·尼尔
剪辑师
Freddy Krueger was a child murderer
弗莱迪·克鲁格是个孩童谋杀者
and there isn't anything funny about that.
这完全不是什么好笑的事情
They kind of gloss over that later.
电影中把这点掩饰过去了
编剧 代表作《惊声尖叫》
凯文·威廉姆森
The creation of Freddy Krueger
弗莱迪·克鲁格这个角色
this man who had knives for fingers
一个手指上长着刀子的人
who would come to children in their dreams
这个人跑到孩子的梦里
and kill them, was terrifying.
并杀掉他们，这很可怕
It was just a terrifying idea.
这是一个令人恐惧的概念
I mean, "Nightmare on Elm Street"
《猛鬼街》
Is the next quantum leap forward
是恐怖电影中的
I think, in horror.
下一个量子跃迁
I mean, this killer that can kill you
这个杀手能够在梦里
-In your dreams. -Yeah.
-把你杀死 -没错
So suddenly you have a slasher whose arm--
于是产生了一部跨界涉及到
It crosses into the supernatural, yeah.
超自然题材的砍杀电影
It is a blend of supernatural and slashers.
这是一种超自然元素与砍杀的结合
格里高利·尼克特洛
执行制片人/导演 代表作《行尸走肉》
The rules of any sort of world don't apply.
任何世界的原则都不再适用
-Right. -I think that's what made
-是的 -我认为就是这一点
Freddy Krueger such a unique character.
让弗莱迪·克鲁格如此与众不同
-It just took us to a different place. -Yeah. Yeah.
-这把观众带入了不同的境界 -是的
Wes Craven was a visionary, I think
韦斯·克雷文非常有远见
in terms of fear
在恐惧的方面
understanding what that-- what that could be
能够理解是什么使人恐惧
and maximizing that
并且放大它
林沙烨
演员 代表作《猛鬼街》
in these broad strokes
用这种大胆的笔触
which "Nightmare on Elm Street" has.
在《猛鬼街》中
What is one of the earliest things
我能想到的最初的
I can think of as a weapon
能够使人闻风丧胆的
that would have terrified human beings?
一种武器是什么呢？
The cave bear reaching around the corner
潜伏于四周
with his massive mitt
亮出利爪的熊
韦斯·克雷文
编剧/导演 代表作《猛鬼街》
with daggers on the end of every finger.
每根手指上都连着匕首
That's primal.
这很原始
Even the colors.
甚至在色彩上
I read an article on the two most difficult colors
我读到过，在虹膜或者视网膜上
for the iris--or the retina to see next to each other
最难同时看到的两种颜色
were those two colors.
就是这两种颜色
And then finding an actor who was brilliant
然后就是找到一名优秀的演员
and who could bring it to life.
能够赋予这个角色生命
Wes used to call Freddy the bastard stepfather
韦斯曾经把弗莱迪称为我们的
of us all.
“混蛋继父”
But when I got the part
当我拿到角色时
I didn't know what I was gonna do.
我不知道我要做什么
And the makeup sessions informed
但是化妆部门的工作
罗伯特·英格兰德
演员
代表作《猛鬼街》
a lot of what I did.
给出了很多提示
They were dabbing at me with a crusty brush
他们用硬刷使劲刷着
and basting me like a turkey with...
我像只火鸡一样被刷满了...
Vaseline so that I picked up the light better.
...凡士林，这样反光效果更好
And in comes Johnny Depp and Heather Langenkamp
还有希瑟·兰根坎普和约翰尼·德普
arguably the two most attractive young people
可能是当时世界上最有魅力的
in the world at that moment
两个年轻人
and it got me angry and envious of their youth and their beauty
这让我嫉妒他们两个的年轻与美貌
and the fact that these two kids
还有这两个孩子
had their whole careers ahead of them.
面前一片光明的前途
And I went, "Wait a minute. I can use that."
我想道：“等一下，我可以利用这点”
This is just a dream! He isn't real!
这只是梦！他不是真实的！
He isn't real!
他不是真的！
Of course, all my fights with Freddy
当然了，我与弗莱迪的每一场争斗
were fantastic, and we would work on them
都非常精彩，每一场戏
for a long time.
我们都会研究很久
Once the camera was rolling
一旦摄影机开拍
you know, we got into our characters
我们进入到各自的角色
and I bashed him over the head with a coffeepot.
我往他的脑袋上砸了一个咖啡壶
I think the real reason it had
我认为这部电影依然
such a massive audience and still does
拥有大批影迷的原因就是
is, every single one of the films
系列中每一部电影都有一个
has a really strong, well-written survivor girl.
塑造得非常坚强、立体的幸存女孩
Come out and show yourself, you bastard!
快出来现身，你这个混蛋！
So something really interesting
关于《猛鬼街》中
about Nancy Thompson in "A Nightmare on Elm Street"
南希·汤普森身上有趣的一点是
is that it's sort of her breaking free
这某种意义上是她挣脱
作家
from this chain of suburbia
这种城郊完美生活的束缚
being this ideal because her family is broken.
因为她的家庭破产了
Nancy.
南希
I'm gonna go and get the guy who did it.
我会抓到罪魁祸首的
And I want you to be there to arrest him
我希望我把他引出来时
when I bring him out, okay?
你能在场逮捕他，好吗？
Just tell me who did it. I'll go get him, baby.
告诉我是谁干的，我会去抓他，宝贝
Fred Krueger did it, Daddy.
是弗莱迪·克鲁格，爸爸
Her father, while, I think, very loving
她的父亲，虽然非常关爱她
is very inept.
但是非常无能
He refuses to believe her.
他拒绝相信她
Her mother's an alcoholic.
她的母亲是个酒鬼
She breaks free from it by destroying the home
她通过毁掉家庭，进而毁灭...
thereby destroying Freddy Krueger
弗莱迪·克鲁格，以此得到解脱
who came because her parents had killed him.
而弗莱迪正是由于被她父母杀害而来
I guess I'd say my very first fans were young gay men.
我猜测我的第一批粉丝都是年轻的同性恋男性
And they told me that they were using Nancy
他们告诉我他们用的是南希的勇气
as they faced their folks or their parents
在他们面对亲人或父母时
or their families in revealing their true selves.
或在一家人面前坦白真正的自己时
I take back every bit of energy I gave you.
我收回我给你的每一点力量
You're nothing.
你什么都不是
And they expressed to me that it was just, like--
他们向我表达
it was their Freddy, you know
这就是他们的弗莱迪
just, like, that scary thing that they have to face
就像是必须面对的令人恐惧的事
that they have to fight.
但他们必须作斗争
I would often listen to all sorts of people
我经常听各种人讲起
talk about what their Freddy was.
他们各自的弗莱迪是什么
And, I mean, it can be anything
而且这可以代表任何事
I'm telling you. It can be anything.
我跟你说，这可以是任何事
Kids who were bullied would tell me
被霸凌的孩子会告诉我
that they would use the images
他们会利用
of "Nightmare on Elm Street"
《猛鬼街》中的画面
to help them face bullies in their life.
来帮助他们面对生活中的霸凌
You think you was gonna get away from me?
你以为你能逃过我？
I know you too well now, Freddy.
我太了解你了，弗莱迪
You know, Wes Craven probably never knew
韦斯·克雷文可能不会知道
how many he people he was gonna help
他会因此帮助到多少人
by creating this Nancy-Freddy dynamic.
创造这种南希和弗莱迪之间的关系
导演：查克·拉塞尔
《猛鬼街III：梦战士》(1987)
It seems to me there were several
对我来说有几部
peak nightmares
最好的《猛鬼街》
that the first one was really terrifying
第一部真的非常吓人
乔·希尔
作家 代表作《龙鳞焰火》
but there was a couple others way downstream
但是接下来的系列中
that were really satisfying
也有几部非常令人满意
and did interesting things intellectually.
并且有处理得很聪明的桥段
There's a lot of echoes to Kafka
还有很多对卡夫卡的致敬
you know, and that, insects and other things.
特别是昆虫那一段，还有别的
Freddy Krueger's pretty terrifying
第一部《猛鬼街》中的弗莱迪·克鲁格
伊利亚·伍德
演员/制片人
in the first "Nightmare on Elm Street."
非常令人恐惧
Watch this.
瞧好了
But he became a one-line reader.
但后来的他开始讲笑话
导演：雷尼·哈林
《猛鬼街IV：梦幻主宰》(1987)
How's this for a wet dream?
这个梦够咸湿了吗？
Silly, funny, like, puns
愚蠢的，滑稽的，双关笑话
and double entendres.
那些言外之意
This is it, Jennifer.
就是现在了，詹妮弗
Your big break in TV.
你在电视里的大突破
Welcome to prime time, bitch.
欢迎来到黄金时段，贱人
With a joke here, a joke there
这里一个笑话，那里一个笑话
a wisecrack here, there
时不时一句俏皮话
it makes it easier to set them up
让观众更容易接受
for another dark sequence
另一段黑暗的情节
or another horrific thing or just a cheap-thrill scare.
另一个骇人的形象，或只是一惊一乍
Got your nose!
捉到鼻子啦！
Did we go too far sometimes? Perhaps.
有时候过火了吗？可能吧
And did we load it up too much?
有时候笑话太密了吗？
Sometimes, perhaps, yeah.
偶尔会，是的
I'll get you, my pretty, and your little soul too.
我会抓到你的，美人！还有你的灵魂！
You know, I've been, you know
我一直，一直在
乔丹·皮尔
编剧/导演 代表作《逃出绝命镇》
listening to
一直在观察
what--how crowds respond to horror
观众是如何对恐怖片产生反应的
for most of my life.
一直都是
You know, talking about sort of--
当提到了
with the Freddy movies, with the Freddy sequels...
弗莱迪的电影和一系列续集
How a black theater could--
关于黑人观众的...
You know, the relationship to Freddy
要知道观众与弗莱迪之间
is almost--is closer than it is to the victims
感情上是比与被害者更近的
-Of those movies. -Of course.
-在这些电影中 -当然了
-Right? Of course. -You identify with Freddy.
-对吧？ -当然了，你会认同弗莱迪
He's funny. You identify with him.
他风趣幽默，你能代入他的角色
There's--you know him. You don't know
你了解他，你并不了解...
these new motherfuckers coming to get killed.
这些新来的死到临头的混蛋
-Right. -They're just sheep for the slaughter.
-是的 -他们都是待宰的羔羊
By the way, we're identifying with Freddy
别忘了，我们认同的弗莱迪
the child murderer.
是一个孩童杀手
Yes, but black people also love them from Jason...
是的，但是黑人观众也喜欢杰森
Yes. And some Michael Myers.
也喜欢迈克尔·麦尔斯
There's something about these--
这其中有一些...
first of all, these characters that don't give a fuck...
首先这些杀手根本不在乎
-Mm-hmm. -That are cold-blooded...
-嗯哼 -都是冷血的...
That I think scratches an itch
我认为这搔到了痒处
a frustrated itch, a societally frustrated itch.
一种未被满足的，社会性的痒处
That itch would be scratched
这种欲求不满可以通过
by a slasher with a hook
一个带着钩子的杀手...
a monster driven by love
一个被爱情驱使的怪物...
and the need to kill.
带着杀戮的渴望
Be my victim.
做我的受害者
Candyman.
糖果人
导演：伯纳德·罗斯
《糖果人》(1992)
Candyman.
糖果人
Candyman.
糖果人
Candyman.
糖果人
"Candyman," in a nutshell
《糖果人》总的来说
is a dark love story.
是一段黑暗的爱情故事
Virginia Madsen and I were deeply in love
维吉妮娅·马德森和我在前世里
托尼·托德
演员 代表作《糖果人》
in another life.
深深陷入爱河
Candyman was an artist
糖果人是一位艺术家
and unfortunately her father was a racist.
不幸的是她父亲是种族歧视者
Had him lynched, cut off his arm
处以私行，砍掉了他的手
and replaced it with a hook.
并用一个铁钩代替
And he was trying to reclaim his lost love
他试图挽回自己遗失的爱人
by getting her to honor, you know
希望她能把他
him as a mystery man.
当做神秘人来纪念
电影学者
What "Candyman" tried to do
《糖果人》想要表达的
was using slavery
是利用奴隶制
and some of the violence of slavery
还有奴隶制带来的暴力
to explain the emergence of this monstrous character
来解释这个丑恶角色的出现
who, if you say his name
这个人，如果对着镜子
into a mirror five times--
把他的名字说五遍...
Dare you.
敢不敢
Candyman.
糖果人
Candyman. Candyman.
糖果人，糖果人
Candyman.
糖果人
He comes if you just say his name.
只要念到名字他就会出现
Candyman.
糖果人
It doesn't get much scarier than that.
不会有什么比这更可怕了
Most slasher films start with
大部分的砍杀电影开头
作家
a traumatic experience that happens
都有一段令人痛苦的经历
as, like, a--sort of a
发生在...像是...
precursor to where the film is set in modern day.
这个现代故事的前身
The trauma itself serves as a triggering effect
这创伤一本身起着在现代
for the killer in the present time.
对杀手产生触发效应的作用
*死因未知，是什么杀死了露西·简？
What's so interesting about that is that
其中很有趣的一点就是
a lot of it is based in loss and grief.
很多这样的经历都来自失去和哀悼
It had a real impact on a lot of audiences.
这对观众有着强烈的冲击
Black audiences because, hey, even though
黑人观众会表示
he's the monster...
尽管他是怪物...
Believe in me.
相信我
Be my victim.
做我的受害者
We will turn out to see blacks in a horror film.
我们仍能在恐怖电影里看到黑人角色
It was based on Clive Barker's book
电影是基于克里夫·巴克的小说
"The Forbidden."
《禁忌》
And I think what Bernard Rose, the director and writer
本片的导演和编剧伯纳德·罗斯
did brilliantly was to transpose it
非常高明地将背景换到
to Cabrini-Green
“*加布利尼-格林”上
*美国芝加哥一处臭名昭著的公屋住宅区，犯罪横生
which is now gone but was one of the most
虽然现在不在了，但当时是
dangerous housing projects in America.
美国最危险的住房区之一
I thought "Candyman" was really cool
我认为《糖果人》太酷了
because, you know, you're so used to seeing
因为观众看惯了那些
these traditional haunted house movies
那些传统的鬼屋电影
迪亚波罗·科蒂
编剧 代表作《詹妮弗的肉体》
and it's, like, the opposite.
而这个是，相反的东西
The setting is so gritty.
电影的设定非常真实
I think "Candyman" is intended more
我认为《糖果人》更多是为
for a white audience.
白人观众拍的
It's looking at kind of the fear of the urban setting
电影聚焦这种对城市的恐惧
and Cabrini-Green and the sprawl
还有加布利尼-格林公屋，还有芝加哥...
of poverty in Chicago
日益增长的贫困问题
and what might come out of that.
还有这些可能催生的麻烦
Damn it.
该死
One of the brilliant things about the film
电影中有一点非常高明的是
is that he doesn't appear until 45 minutes...
糖果人直到电影开始45分钟后...
into the film.
才第一次出现
He's spoken about. They mytholize him.
他被人谈论着，被神话化
Everybody's scared.
所有人都很害怕
He--he could come right through these walls, you know.
他能从这里穿墙而入，知道吗？
I-I'm scared.
我很害怕
Scared for my child.
为我的孩子害怕
They ain't never gonna catch him.
他们永远抓不到他的
Who?
抓到谁？
Candyman.
糖果人
I think some audiences were troubled
我觉得有些观众会因为
because so many of the people he killed were black.
他杀掉了那么多黑人而觉得不妥
So if it was a straight revenge story
如果这是个复仇的故事
he would have been killing nothing
那么他会杀死的
but white people, right?
只有白人，不是吗？
But the residents of this project
但是这个居住区的居民
were also his victims.
也是他的受害者
If you were to explain
如果这么讲这个故事：
作家
"Well, it's about this black dude who was
“故事是讲一个黑人因为”
"murdered for having sex with a white lady
“跟一个白人女子上床而被杀”
"and then he comes back and hunts the white lady
“然后他起死回生来追杀这个白人女子”
and lots of other people too," you'd be like
“还杀了很多别的人”你会觉得
"Nah, I don't think we're gonna make that movie."
“不了吧，我不想把这个拍成电影”
You know what I mean? But somehow
你懂我意思吗？然而
through his level of magnetism and charm
通过他的吸引力和魅力
he manages to make Candyman someone--
他成功地将糖果人塑造成这样的...
I don't know if they love him, but who they love to fear.
我不知道观众是否爱他，但一定很畏惧他
Be my victim.
做我的受害者
Be my victim.
做我的受害者
He's got a passion. He wants what he wants.
他有种激情，渴望他所想要的
And this is his unrequited love.
这就是他不求回报的爱
This is the woman that got away
这就是离他而去的女人
the woman that he cherished, you know?
是他所珍爱的女人
And it happens to be in a horrific environment
而这恰巧发生在一个糟糕的环境中
but, you know, he'd do anything for her.
但是你知道，他会为她做任何事
Even kill her if they can die together.
甚至为了殉情而杀了她
Your death would be a tale to frighten children
你的死亡会成为令孩子们恐惧的传说
to make lovers cling closer in their rapture.
会让爱人们在狂喜中紧紧互拥
Come with me
跟我一起
and be immortal.
永生不死
I think that mixture of terror and empathy
我认为那种惊恐与共情的结合
乔·希尔
作家 代表作《龙鳞焰火》
is very powerful.
非常有力
Every great work of horror fiction
每一部恐怖佳作
is an exercise in extreme empathy.
都是对极端共情能力的考验
It's about falling in love with characters
是爱上故事里的角色
and then staying with them as they endure the worst.
并且在最糟的时候待在他们身边
And he's an iconic monster.
他是一个经典的反派
He had bees coming out of his mouth.
他的嘴巴里能飞出蜜蜂来
He had bees all over his face.
他的整张脸上都是蜜蜂
We used over 100,000 bees on that set.
这场戏我们用了超过十万只蜜蜂
It was all practicals, which is--you know
全都是实物实拍
totally makes a difference.
*而且女主对蜂蛰严重过敏
这绝对非同一般
I think I got maybe 26 stings
我想我大概一共被叮了
altogether, but they were
二十六下，但是这是...
an essential part to...
非常重要的一部分
creating the terror for the situation.
在那个场景下创造惊悚
You know, what happens to a ghost
如果一个鬼魂依然是行尸走肉
if he's still living flesh?
那会是什么样子？
Will he be inhabited by maggots?
他会全身爬满蛆虫吗？
Well, then we chose bees 'cause...
然后我们选择了蜜蜂，因为
they're just that--you know
蜜蜂非常的...你懂的
every kid is afraid of a bee sting.
每个小孩都惧怕蜂蛰
You know, there's nothing ambiguous about horror.
恐怖片里是没有模棱两可的
Horror is an engine.
恐怖电影就像是个引擎
雷·沃纳尔
编剧/演员 代表作《电锯惊魂》
It's like a great white shark.
就像是一头大白鲨
It has a purpose, something it wants to do.
它有目的，有想要达成的事情
It wants to scare you.
它想要吓到你
And in that way, that lack of ambiguity
在这方面，没有模棱两可
is really freeing as a filmmaker
就让电影人没有了约束
'cause you know what you're trying to do.
因为你清楚自己想做的是什么
Help! Help me!
救命！救救我！
It's a beautiful thing to play with
能在这里做文章是非常美好的
and it's even more beautiful thing when it works.
特别是想法奏效的时候尤其美好
Candyman is an icon
糖果人是一个经典形象
one of the great supernatural monsters.
是最伟大的超自然怪物之一
But the masked serial killer was ready to make a comeback
但蒙面连环杀手已经准备好卷土重来
with a postmodern twist.
带着后现代的剧情反转
Slashers kind of go away for a while.
砍杀片貌似消失了一段时间
Like, once we're sort of out of weapons...
就好像没有新的武器可用了
I think the public starts to get bored of it.
公众应该也已经觉得无聊了
罗布·赞比
编剧/导演
代表作《千尸屋》
Well, there were so-- and there were so many sequels.
是的，而且有太多的续集了
And they were always diminishing returns.
续集回归的质量总是越来越差
Exactly, and they were never about being scary.
没错，而且它们不再是关于恐怖
And then "Scream" comes along.
此后，《惊声尖叫》出现了
导演：韦斯·克雷文
《惊声尖叫》(1996)
My whole goal when writing "Scream" was
在写《惊声尖叫》时，我的整个目标是
I wanted a horror movie to sort of
我想拍这样一部恐怖电影
凯文·威廉姆森
编剧 代表作《惊声尖叫》
live and breathe in a time
能够鲜活地存在于在这个
where the other horror movies existed.
与其它恐怖电影共存的时代
If you were the only suspect in a senseless bloodbath...
如果你是一场无情屠杀的唯一嫌疑人
would you be standing in the horror section?
你会站在恐怖片分区吗？
韦斯·克雷文
导演 代表作《惊声尖叫》
Kevin was smart enough to make it
凯文非常高明地
not about the filmmakers and the actors
让电影更多地是关于观众
but about the audience.
而不是制作人和演员
"Scream" is the story of Sidney Prescott.
《惊声尖叫》的故事围绕着席德妮·普莱斯考特
And it's one year after
时间点在他母亲被
the horrific murder of her mother.
残忍谋杀的一年之后
Just when she's about to have
就在她准备好
some semblance of her normal life
回归正常的生活时
just when she's starting to trust again
她刚刚重新开始信任别人
and she's starting to date again
刚开始继续约会谈恋爱
and she's got her boyfriend
还交到了一个男朋友
on the anniversary of her mother's death
在她母亲的一周年忌日之时
murders start occurring
杀人案开始发生
as it looks like perhaps someone takes their love
看起来像是有人对恐怖电影
of scary movies too far.
狂热得过头了
And they start using horror movie lingo
他们开始用恐怖电影里的桥段
as a way to stalk and kill victims.
作为跟踪杀害被害者的手段
You never told me your name.
你还没告诉我你的名字
Why do you want to know my name?
你为什么想知道？
'Cause I want to know who I'm looking at.
因为我想知道我在看着谁
What did you say?
你说什么？
The opening of "Scream" is so iconic at this point.
《惊声尖叫》的开场戏现在已经非常经典了
莱恩·图雷克
制片人 怖屋监制出品
And it's so masterfully done.
而且拍得非常厉害
That is Wes Craven at the height of his career.
这是韦斯·克雷文职业生涯的高峰
It happens. Take it easy.
偶有发生，别放在心上
The thing about Wes Craven is that the scary stuff
对韦斯·克雷文来说，恐怖情节
comes instinctive to him.
像是他的本能
And I think he has a really great eye
并且对于如何将其展现有着
and a sensibility to stage it and to craft it.
独特的眼光和远见
The tracking shots behind Drew Barrymore
在德鲁·巴里摩尔身后的推轨镜头
as she just sort of walks through this very--
跟着她走过了这间
this shadowed house and she moves in and out of light
阴影重重的房子，随着她忽明忽暗的身影
it beautifully sets the pace.
非常精妙地定下了基调
You know, when to dutch the angle
该在什么时候变换角度
when to--you know, when to pull back
该在什么时候后退
when to go wide, when to go close.
什么时候拍全景，什么时候拍特写
The interesting thing about that is
这其中有趣的地方在于
you have-- at that time, certainly--
把当时看来
斯基特·乌尔里奇
演员 代表作《惊声尖叫》
your most famous cast member
片中最有名的演员角色
dying right away.
在片头就杀死
So it really sort of tells an audience
这让观众真正感受到
"You have no idea what to expect."
“你完全预料不到会发生什么”
When I auditioned for it
在我为角色试镜时
there were two very different scenes.
有两场截然不同的戏
There was one of this loving, caring boyfriend
一个是这个充满关爱的男朋友
and then there was one of this psychopath.
另一个就是这个变态杀人狂
We all go a little mad sometimes.
我们偶尔都会发点疯
-No, Billy! -Oh, fuck.
-比利不要！ -哦，该死
Wes really wanted to see
韦斯非常想看到
somebody who could-- who could convincingly play
演员能够令人信服地展现出
both sides of that.
角色的两面
Billy's the killer.
比利就是杀手
And you got to believe fully that he's the killer
而观众需要完全相信他就是凶手
so much so that you go,
足够信任到感觉
"Oh, there's no way he's the killer."
“哦，他肯定不会是凶手”
I wanted to sort of take the genre, rip it apart
我想要解析这一类型片
open it up.
把它掰开揉碎
There's a formula to it
这是有套路的
a very simple formula.
一个非常直白的套路
Everybody's a suspect.
每个人都有嫌疑
When you talk about the tone of "Scream,"
当谈到《惊声尖叫》的基调
I think what he's so successful at
我认为他非常成功之处在于
is balancing that horror comedy that we don't see so often
难得的恐怖与喜剧的平衡
pulled off very well.
完成得非常棒
Damn little shit.
该死的混蛋
What'd you call me?
你叫我什么？
-Huh? - Not you, Fred.
-哈？ -没说你，弗莱迪
I was quite against it at the time.
我当时还挺抵触的
I thought, "Wow, I thought I was in a documentary"
我当时想“我还以为我是在一部”
"about a serial killer"
“讲连环杀手的纪录片里呢”
"and they're playing this"
“但是他们拍出来”
"you know, for laughs."
“是想搞笑的”
Wes found the right balance and the tone
韦斯在剪辑工作的过程中
through the editorial process
找到了完美的平衡
but I do remember we were like
但我依然记得考虑过
"Should he be falling down that much?"
“真的要让他摔倒这么多次吗？”
He's kind of, like, the clumsiest killer alive.
他可能是史上最笨手笨脚的杀手了
And we were always worried about
我们还一直担心
that skirt he was wearing, you know
他穿的那件袍子
how silly that would look.
看起来非常的蠢
But it all seemed to work out.
但最后这些效果都很好
Yeah, at the beginning, they wanted me to come meet
最初想让我来演的是
for Skeet's role, Billy.
斯基特的角色，比利
I didn't do anything.
我什么都没做
Do you wish to give up your right
你是否放弃你的权利...
to speak to an attorney and have him present...
请律师到场...
But the role of Dewey, I thought it was so funny.
但是杜威这一角色，我认为非常有趣
大卫·阿奎特
演员
代表作《惊声尖叫》
He was written as, like
他被描写成了
this big, buff, like, meathead.
一个大块头的壮实呆瓜
And I was like, "I think I could bring..."
我当时想：“我觉得我能...”
"A different meathead quality to it."
“给这个呆瓜带来一些不同的特质”
People treat me like
人们看到我
I'm the antichrist of television journalism.
就好像看到了电视记者界的邪教徒
I don't think you're that bad.
我不觉得你有那么坏
No?
是吗？
My favorite part about working
在《惊声尖叫》电影的工作中
on the "Scream" movies
我最喜欢的部分
was working with Wes Craven.
就是与韦斯·克雷文合作
You meet few people in this world that are--
你在世上认识了几个人
turn out to be your heroes, like, living heroes.
最后成了你身边活生生的英雄
And he held himself like a professor.
他的为人处世像个教授
He was a really intelligent guy.
他是个非常聪明的人
But he'd say things like, "Well, that was horrible.
但他也会说诸如“行吧，这段演得太差了”
You wanna try it again?"
“你想再来一遍吗？”
You really have to respect your audience.
你必须要尊重自己的观众
You have to know these kids are damn smart, you know?
要知道现在的孩子都聪明得很
The wonderful thing about the "Scream" series
《惊声尖叫》系列非常精彩的地方
was that Kevin Williamson
在于凯文·威廉姆森
said, "Yeah, I've seen all the movies too
他说过“那些电影我也都看过”
"and let's talk about them, but..."
“我们来谈谈这些电影，但是...”
"This is not like that," you know?
“这并不是平常的讨论”
Help me, please. I'm at Stu Macher's house
请救救我，我在斯图·迈彻家房子这
on Turner Lane. It's 261 Turner Lane.
在特纳街，特纳街261号
Please, he's gonna try and kill me.
求求你，他要来杀我
These movies get a bad rap
这些电影由于一些
for sort of being antifeminist and misogynistic
反女权和厌女情节而有了坏名声
because they are, you know?
但他们确实是这样
And--and--and-- or they have been.
或者，或者曾经是这样
You know, what's great about genre today is
如今这一类型非常棒的一点
we can change all of that.
就是我们可以挑战这些偏见
We don't have to sort of adhere to
我们不需要再遵循
you know, the rules.
这些潜规则
In the '70s and '80s, if...
在七八十年代
if a girl had sex, she--
如果一个女孩做了爱
the rule was, she had to die.
潜规则就是，她会送命
There are certain rules
有这么几条规则
that one must abide by
是必须要遵守的
in order to successfully survive a horror movie.
这样才能成功在一部恐怖片里活下来
For instance, number one, you can never have sex.
比如第一条，绝对不能做爱
We allowed her to have sex.
我们让她做爱了
So you're almost ensuring she's gonna die.
于是观众几乎肯定她要死掉了
But not in this movie.
但这部电影可不是
Right up to the very, very end
一直到最后最后面
where she's like, this is the moment
当她在这样一个时刻里
where the killer...
在杀手...
Comes back to life
起死回生
for one last scare.
最后一次惊吓
And she just ain't gonna have it.
而她干脆就不给这个机会
It was just another way
这是另一种方式
to dismiss those old notions of the final girl
来撕去幸存女孩身上的标签
and so that we can move our heroine
这样才能让我们的女主角
into sort of a new place.
上升到新的层次
Not in my movie.
在我的电影里没门
Horror gets a visceral reaction out of people.
恐怖电影能引出观众最原生的反应
雷·沃纳尔
编剧/演员 代表作《电锯惊魂》
And it's always...
而且总会...
looked down upon by critics to this day.
一直被评论家瞧不起
It astounds me.
这让我非常震惊
Horror starts from kind of a minus 25 position
恐怖电影的起点总是矮半截
and has to claw its way upwards.
必须拼命向上努力
It's fun to turn that on its head.
能够翻盘一次很有趣
I think where that anarchistic sense
我认为那种无政府主义的混乱感
of wanting people to burn the theater down
让人们想要烧掉电影院
comes from wanting to show people
是因为想要给观众展现
like, what horror can really do.
恐怖片真正能做到什么
Good evening, Clarice.
晚上好，克拉丽丝
If you hate us and you think we're bad
如果你憎恨我们，认为我们坏透了
then I'm really gonna go for it.
那么我一定继续努力
导演：乔纳森·戴米
《沉默的羔羊》(1991)
A census taker once tried to test me.
有个人口调查员 想要试探我
I ate his liver with some fava beans
我把他的肝就着蚕豆吃了
and a nice Chianti.
还配了基安蒂干红
"Silence of the Lambs" is a perfect film.
《沉默的羔羊》是一部完美的电影
It kind of shirked the in-your-face
全片都叫嚣着挑衅
布莱恩·富勒
编剧/主创
代表作《汉尼拔》(电视剧)
occasionally vulgarities of the horror genre
偶尔还带着恐怖类型片的粗野
and painted them with a much finer brush
并且用更加精细的笔触
that made it a story that was about being human
成就了一段关于人性的故事
as opposed to a story that was
而不是关于
about the horrors of the world.
世间恐怖的故事
What is your worst memory of childhood?
你童年时最糟的记忆是什么？
Death of my father.
我父亲的死
Horror is a ghetto as far as
恐怖电影好比是
米克·加里斯
主创
代表作《恐怖大师》
the film industry is concerned
电影产业中的贫民窟
but "Silence of the Lambs" changed everything.
但《沉默的羔羊》改变了一切
It suddenly was not only big box office
突然之间不仅仅是票房成绩
and not only horrific but respected.
不仅仅是骇人，而是受到尊敬
You have Sir Anthony Hopkins...
有安东尼·霍普金斯爵士参演...
I'll help you catch him, Clarice.
我会帮你抓到他，克拉丽丝
You had Jonathan Demme, a great, admired director
还有乔纳森·戴米，一位伟大、受尊敬的导演
dipping their toes into really unsavory material
涉足令人不堪的素材中
but done in such a highly polished
然而完成了一部如此精美
and Hollywood style that you could not
好莱坞式的电影，使你...
deny the power of it and the intelligence of it.
无法抵抗片中的魅力和智慧
There's things we need to do for her.
我们需要为她做很多事
I know that y'all brought her this far
我知道你们已经带她走了这么远
and that her folks would thank you if they could
她的家人如果还在也会感谢你们
for your--for your kindness and your sensitivity.
感谢你们的善良和体恤
Now, please, go on now. Let us take care of her.
现在快去吧，让我们去照顾她
Go on now.
快去吧
I think, with "Silence of the Lambs,"
我认为《沉默的羔羊》中
having a fantastic female protagonist
这一了不起的女性主角
that is brought to life by Jodie Foster
由朱迪·福斯特赋予了生命
gave it a life that allowed people
这让那些
who do not appreciate the horror genre
不欣赏恐怖类型片的观众
to appreciate that performance.
能够欣赏她的表演
And that performance was the introduction
她的表演则是一种引见
for a lot of people who are uncomfortable with horror
让很多对恐怖片不适的观众
to actually step back and enjoy it.
能够真正欣赏它
Jonathan mentioned to me
乔纳森跟我提过
that perhaps
也许
霍华德·肖
作曲家 代表作《沉默的羔羊》
the Clarice Starling character
克拉丽丝·史达琳的角色
the Jodie Foster character
或者说朱迪·福斯特的角色
was in a way so central to the nature of the film
某种意义上是电影本质的核心
that the music could reflect her character
配乐也能反映出她的性格
and be a point of view through her eyes.
成为她眼中所见的视角
Generally, that type of film
总而言之，这一种电影
might have focused more on the monster
也许更多聚焦在怪物上
the Lecter character, and I think
在汉尼拔的角色上
by switching that up in that film
通过在电影中放大这一点
it humanized the story in a way
这让故事更加人性化了
that, I think, broadened the appeal of it.
也扩大了电影的吸引力
Senator Martin.
马丁参议员
Dr. Hannibal Lecter.
请见汉尼拔·莱克特博士
I mean, Anthony Hopkins, my God
安东尼·霍普金斯，我的天啊
伊利亚·伍德
演员/制片人
what an iconic performance.
如此经典的表演
Hannibal Lecter is the most terrifying villain
汉尼拔·莱克特是银幕史上
乔·希尔
作家 代表作《龙鳞焰火》
ever put on-screen
最令人恐惧的反派
and he is in that film for about 14 minutes.
而他在电影里只出现了14分钟
He's barely in it at all.
他几乎没怎么露面
We only see slightly more of him than we see
他出镜的场景可能稍微比
of the shark in "Jaws."
《大白鲨》里的鲨鱼多一点
导演：史蒂夫·斯皮尔伯格
《大白鲨》(1975)
And both pictures sort of bring home the idea
而两部电影都充分表明了
that what we can't see is scarier
比起能看见的事物，看不到的事物
than what we can.
才更为吓人
And that's tremendously effective.
而且这招非常有效
There are these moments where
片中有几个片段
something plays different for white people
对于白人观众，比黑人观众
than it does for black people.
有不一样的感受
乔丹·皮尔
编剧/导演 代表作《逃出绝命镇》
Hannibal Lecter, he's a psychopath.
汉尼拔·莱克特是个变态杀手
He's a white psychopath
是个白人变态杀手
but for some reason it's, like, "Yo, that motherfucker cold."
观众有时会觉得“呦，这哥们真冷血”
"This motherfucker eating a face?
“这哥们在啃人脸？”
"That's [bleep] right there.
“这太合我口味来了”
"That [bleep] is Hannibal Lecter.
“这就是汉尼拔·莱克特”
"That's my [bleep] right there.
“这是我的菜了”
"That's--if I'm anybody in this movie, I'm him.
“如果让我做电影里的角色，我肯定是他”
"I'm not the [bleep] who got his face eaten.
“我可不是那个脸被吃掉的傻*”
I'm Hannibal Lecter."
“我肯定是汉尼拔·莱克特”
What became of your lamb, Clarice?
是什么成为了你的羔羊，克拉丽丝？
It came out in February
电影二月份上映
and it played right through the year.
然后热映了一整年
It was one of those films that just
这就是那种
gathered momentum week by week.
每周都爆满的大热电影
And it won five Oscars.
而且赢下了五座奥斯卡
When "Silence of the Lambs"
当《沉默的羔羊》
was nominated for Best Picture
得到最佳影片提名时
厄内斯特·R·迪克森
导演/摄影师
nobody wanted to call it a horror film.
没有人说这是一部恐怖片
You know, all the press stayed away from the fact
所有的媒体都避开了这一事实
that "Silence of the Lambs" is really a horror film.
《沉默的羔羊》事实上是一部恐怖片
It's a slasher film.
这是部砍杀电影
Uh, get in the truck.
放进车里
And I want to push it all the way up.
我想把它推到紧里面
I really appreciate this.
非常感谢帮忙
But a slasher film as Best Picture?
一部砍杀电影评为最佳影片？
No, can't do that.
这可不行
It was an example of what can be done
这部电影展现了
with the genre when it's done just right.
类型片能达到什么样的成就
Hey--hey, are you about a size 14?
嘿，你大概穿14号吗？
Sorry?
什么？
What is that people love about going
到底是什么让人们
to see horror movies?
热爱观看恐怖电影？
I think what we love about it
我认为我们所热爱的
and what the average person loves about it
同普通人对恐怖片所热爱的
I think, is different.
我认为是不一样的
We'd see a "Texas Chainsaw Massacre,"
我们看到《德州电锯杀人狂》
"Dawn of the Dead," I go, "I wanna live there.
《活死人黎明》时，我会想“我愿意活在那里”
I wanna live inside this movie."
“我愿意活在这部电影里”
"I want to re-create this in my house."
“我想在我家复刻这个场景”
And essentially we did do that, right?
但最后我们基本上做到了，不是吗？
-Right. -Yeah.
-没错 -是的
But I think, for the average person
但我认为对于普通人来说
it's like, you can
就好像是在
罗布·赞比
编剧/导演 代表作《千尸屋》
safely experience something demented.
安全地感受一些疯狂的事
It's also coming to grips with our own mortality.
同时也会让我们确立自己的道德准则
Maybe there's some weird catharsis of, like, "Okay, well.."
也许会有些发泄狂人会想道...
格里高利·尼克特洛
执行制片人/导演
代表作《行尸走肉》
" Thank God my death could never nearly be as bad as what I just saw
“谢天谢地，我死的时候不可能有这么糟糕”
"so maybe it's not so bad.
“那也许死亡没那么糟”
Maybe I'm just gonna fall asleep..."
“可能我只是陷入沉睡”
I think it's all dealing with the fear of death.
我认为这都是在处理对死亡的恐惧
After 9/11
911事件之后
fear escalated to nearly unbearable levels.
恐惧升级到令人窒息的程度
And that fear was reflected in movies
而这种恐惧也反映在电影界
that dared us not to turn away.
挑战着我们的承受极限
I want to play a game.
我想玩一个游戏
People always ask me
总有人问我
"How do you make a horror film scary?"
“要怎么让一部电影吓人？”
And I think that the only common thread
我想我发现的
that I've found is when
一个共同之处在于
the filmmaker, the director
电影的制作人，导演
is truly terrified by the subject matter.
对某个主题感到真实的恐惧
导演：詹姆斯·温
《电锯惊魂》(2004)
You can tell when other people are phoning in
在其他人也想要参与进来时
and trying to imitate a genre.
想要模仿一个类型时就能看出
And you can tell when someone loves it.
能看出一些人是真正的热爱
I met James Wan at film school.
我和詹姆斯·温是在电影学院认识的
We both loved horror movies.
我们都热爱恐怖电影
We were both obsessed with "The Evil Dead" and...
我们都着迷于《鬼玩人》还有...
雷·沃纳尔
编剧/演员 代表作《电锯惊魂》
Dario Argento
达里奥·阿金图
and "The Shining" and all the rest of it.
还有《闪灵》还有所有恐怖片
We realized we should team up
我们决定合作
and try to make a movie with our own money.
自掏腰包来拍一部电影
And so we figured out that the cheapest thing
于是我们想道最便宜的做法
we could do would be two actors in one room.
就是在一个房间里放两个演员
Finally, we hit upon the idea for "Saw."
最终我们想出了《电锯惊魂》的主意
"Saw" is about two men who wake up
《电锯惊魂》讲的是两个人醒来
chained to the wall in this dilapidated
发现自己被镣铐锁在了一间废弃的...
Dirty...
脏兮兮的...
Bathroom, basically.
大致算一间卫生间
They don't know how they got there.
他们不知道是怎么来到这的
But lying between them is a dead body.
但是两人中间躺着一具死尸
And they find out that they've been put there
并且他们发现自己是被一个
by a sadistic serial killer
施虐杀人狂关在这里的
who forces people to play games for their lives.
并且强迫别人玩游戏才能活下来
John Kramer is a mechanical engineer.
约翰·克里默是一个机械工程师
He's an architect.
他是个设计师
He is somewhat of a philosopher.
某种程度上还是个哲学家
He is a master at prosthetics
是特效化妆大师
a bit of a magician of sorts
还会点魔术
托宾·贝尔
演员 代表作《电锯惊魂》
And with John, what you see is often not what you get.
约翰让你看到的往往不是你能得到的
Whoever brought us here could have killed us by now.
无论谁把我们带到这里，想杀我们早就动手了
But they didn't.
但他们没有下手
They must want something from us.
他们一定对我们有所要求
You got Leigh over here
雷被锁在一边
and you got Cary Elwes over here
加利·艾尔维斯铐在另一边
and you got this guy in the middle
中间隔着这么个家伙
and this strength and this silence.
空气中充满张力和死寂
But I always felt his centralness to this story.
但我总能感受到故事是以他为中心的
The way that I see Jigsaw
我是如何看待竖锯的
is kind of the Zen master of sadism.
他是施虐方面的禅宗大师
Hello, Amanda.
你好，阿曼达
You don't know me but...
你不认识我，但是...
I know you.
我认识你
I want to play a game.
我想玩一个游戏
His mission, of course, is to
他的使命就是
help people to see the value of life.
让人们看到生命的价值
And whether we think his methods are appropriate
无论我们认为他的方式合理与否
作家
代表作《9/11事件后的酷刑电影》
or not, that's a different story altogether.
不合适的话就是另一个故事了
My family!
我的家庭！
There was something about watching human behavior
《电锯惊魂》中，关于观察人类在极端环境下的行为
卢蒂娜·卫斯理
演员 代表作《真爱如血》
in extreme circumstances in "Saw,"
总是非同寻常的
and I think-- and I thought to myself
我想...我扪心自问
"Well, could I saw off my leg if I had to?
“如果需要，我能锯下自己的腿吗？”
"Would I do it?"
“我会动手吗？”
"How would I do it? Could I do it?"
“我要怎么做？我能做到吗？”
When you don't have a big star
当你请不起名演员
in the lead role and you don't have the money
来做电影主演，而又没有钱...
for special effects
去做特效化妆
the only thing you have going for you
当前能考虑的唯一问题就是
is that question, "What's gonna happen next?"
“接下来会发生什么？”
What are you doing?
你在做什么？
Both James and I always loved really great...
詹姆斯和我都很喜欢
twist endings that made you go back
结尾的剧情反转，会让你
and reexamine the movie.
重新回头检查电影
We really thought we had something good.
我们真的认为自己做出了好作品
I think I was there about 12 or 13 days
我记得我在卫生间里那滩血上
Lying in this pool of blood on the bathroom floor.
一直躺了十二三天
You're quite convinced that he's where he is
观众如此确信他的位置
and you forget about it in some way.
以至于会让人忘记他的存在
The biggest reaction that I think
在我职业生涯中得到的最大的...
I've had in my career was the ending of "Saw,"
...观影反响，就是《电锯惊魂》的结尾
that ending when he stands up off the floor.
当他从地上站起身那里
Which is one of the reasons why I did the film
这也是我演这部电影的初衷之一
'cause I thought it would be a remarkable moment.
我认为这会是个非凡的高光时刻
It was worth doing just for that moment.
只为这一段也值得参演
And to actually physically see people lose their mind
真正去切身地看到观众疯掉
and yell at the screen...
对着银幕大喊...
I mean, people would just be shouting, like, "No way!
人们全都在喊：“不是吧！“
No way!"
“你在逗我！”
So that was the best feeling
这是我们经历的
you know, we could have ever had.
最棒的感受了
The last thing he says before he closes the door
还有他关上门离开之前说的
to leave, he says, "Some people..."
最后一句话：“有些人..."
Are so ungrateful to be alive.
对生命如此忘恩负义
But not you.
但你不会
Not anymore.
再也不会了
Game over.
游戏结束
To me, "Saw" is that original film
对我来说，第一部《电锯惊魂》
and then all the other movies, they sit over here
和其他的续集是不一样的
and then the original film, to me, sits on its own.
第一部在我心中的地位是独一无二的
The later "Saws," yeah, they became more--
后来的《电锯惊魂》成为了
more about the torture, but really they were
更多是关于酷刑折磨，但是...
比尔·尼尔
剪辑师
torture about people who deserved it.
折磨的都是罪有应得的人
The "Saw" movies, it's the bad guys
在《电锯惊魂》里
who are being tortured.
是坏人在被折磨着
导演：凯文·格劳特
《电锯惊魂VI》(2009)
According to your policy
根据你们的政策
your secretary is older and weaker
你的秘书又老又孱弱
and therefore less worthy to survive.
因此是最不值得活下去的
By, I think it was "Saw 6,"
我记得是在第六部里
where they're going after insurance companies
被下手的是一些保险公司
that have denied people their claims, and--
他们驳回了人们的申诉
I don't know-- maybe they kind of deserve it
我不知道...也许他们活该吧
in the world of that movie.
在电影的世界观里
I've had skateboarders, 12-year-olds
有好多小孩子
come up to me, groups of them,
甚至十二岁的滑板少年
And say "Yeah, we love those movies."
对我说：“我们非常喜欢这些电影”
You have one minute to pull the fishhook
你有一分钟时间 从她胃里
《电锯惊魂VII：最终章》(2010)
导演：凯文·格劳特
from her stomach and unlock her device.
把鱼钩拉出来 解锁装置
And I say, "Yeah, really? Why? Why do you love 'em?"
我说：“是吗？你们为什么喜欢？”
And they say, "Because...
他们说：“因为..."
they teach you stuff."
“它有教育意义”
I said, "Like what?"
我说“教育什么了？”
They say, "Well, like, to-- that you need
他们说，“就像人需要...”
to appreciate your life."
“珍惜自己的生命”
导演：迈克尔·斯派瑞，彼得·斯派瑞
《电锯惊魂8：竖锯》(2017)
And they're not talking about the traps.
而且他们没有在讨论那些机关
They're not talking about the blood.
没有在讨论那些血浆
They're talking about concepts
他们在讨论电影中
that resonate in the film.
与人共鸣的意义
So when you get this little germ
当这个想法、这个信念的
of an idea, of a thought
小种子撒进了心里
when it's surrounded by that kind of intensity
当种子被这种程度的紧张刺激包围
it makes the germ resonate in a certain way.
这就能在一定程度上产生共鸣
One of the issues with the "Saw" movies--
关于《电锯惊魂》的一件事是
and you can take it however you want--
你怎么理解都可以...
is the fact that we invented a whole new term
就是我们发明了一个全新的概念
马克·布鲁克斯
作家
代表作《僵尸世界大战》
"torture porn."
“酷刑折磨片”
导演：达伦·林恩·鲍斯曼
《电锯惊魂III》(2006)
But we invented it at the very same time
在发明它的同一时间
America, as a nation
美国这一国家
was under world indictment
正在被全世界所控告
for actually torturing people.
被控告对人们实施真实的酷刑
The torture porn cycle of horror films
恐怖电影中酷刑片的循环
作家
is strongly linked to the height of what
与当时乔治·W·布什带来的
George W. Bush termed the War on Terror.
对战争的高度恐惧紧密相关
This crusade.
这一圣战...
Use any means at our disposal.
利用我们的一切资源
*阿布·格莱布监狱拷问 五角大楼声称 去年秋季已开始调查 伊拉克战俘问题
This war on terrorism.
这个针对恐怖主义的战争
The torture porn cycle is kind of
恐怖电影中酷刑片的模式
the cycle of the extreme horror movie
就是极度恐怖电影的模式
the "can you not look away?"
那种“你能忍住不扭过头吗？”
"Can you believe how far they're taking this?
“你能相信他们做得有多过分吗？”
Can you handle it?"
“你承受得住吗？”
And I think it really kind of
我认为这些问题的结晶
was crystallized with "Hostel."
就是《人皮客栈》
导演：伊莱·罗斯
《人皮客栈》(2005)
A lot of people say it started with "Saw."
许多人都说这是从 《电锯惊魂》开始的
I think the original "Saw"
我认为第一部《电锯惊魂》
plays more as a thriller horror movie
更像是一部惊悚恐怖电影
than a torture porn movie.
而不是酷刑折磨片
Hostel becomes a little bit more
《人皮客栈》更多的是关于
of the "how much can you stand to watch?"
“你能忍受着看多久？”
When we started making our movies
在我们开始拍这部电影时
the term "torture porn" came out.
“酷刑折磨片”的概念开始出现
*地方电影院当下热播：酷刑折磨
I'll credit-- I'll give you that one.
这确实是你的功劳
All right, I'll take that one.
好啦，那我就承认了
导演：伊莱·罗斯
《人皮客栈》(2005)
One of the things about torture porn
酷刑折磨电影
is that we are no longer afraid of bogeymen.
让我们不再害怕夜魔
Michael and Jason and those characters
迈克尔和杰森还有那些角色
lost a certain currency.
失去了他们的地位
And what really strikes fear
真正引起恐惧的是
作家
代表作《9/11事件后的酷刑电影》
particularly in the United States
特别是在美国
in a post-9/11 moment, is other people.
在911之后的年代
Other people are frightening.
是其他人让你感到恐惧
You're not going?
你不来吗？
I've seen this show.
这段我看过了
The "Hostel" franchise speaks truth to power
《人皮客栈》系列揭示了力量
and presents Americans in the way
并且将世界眼中的美国
that the world perceives us.
展现了出来
The whole first section of the film...
整个电影的第一部分
it's kind of done like a teen sex comedy, right?
拍得好像是青年爱情喜剧
Like, before it gets into the horrific scenes
在那些骇人的场景开始之前
we see Paxton, Josh, and their friend Oli
帕克斯顿、乔什，还有他们的朋友奥利
in Amsterdam.
来到了阿姆斯特丹
And they're just there to party and smoke pot
他们在那只是聚会玩乐和吸麻
and especially, in a very extended sequence
特别是在一段加长片段里
have sex with prostitutes.
还去找妓女嫖娼
It invokes this whole kind of privilege
这激起了一种特权
of paying to do something to somebody else.
付钱给别人来做一些事
But it's just like everyone's out for themselves.
电影中几乎是各自为战
珍·索斯卡
编剧/导演 代表作《美国玛丽》
You're not meeting friends. You're meeting...
你不是去见朋友，而是
Someone who could be the person
去见一个可能成为凶手的
that's gonna kill and rape and murder you.
可能会把你先奸后杀的人
You're very patient.
你很有耐心
I don't--I don't remember--
我不...我不记得...
乔丹·皮尔
编剧/导演 代表作《逃出绝命镇》
-It was 45 minutes. -Yeah, you go 45 minutes.
-四十五分钟 -没错，你等了四十五分钟
Then we kill our first character.
然后才开始杀死第一个角色
In that time, you are
在那些时长里，你在
allowing us to identify with the soon-to-be victims
让观众代入这些未来的被害者们
but you're also subtlety allowing us
但你非常隐晦地让观众
to hate them in a weird way. Mm-hmm.
以一种奇怪的方式讨厌他们
'Cause they're being kind of rude--
因为他们的表现有些粗鲁
they're being so American.
他们的表现是典型的美国人
So by the time you get to the killing
所以等到了大开杀戒的时候
we're half identifying with the killer
我们一半与杀手认同
half identifying with the victim, and I think
一半代入受害者的角色
that part of it is the weirdest thing about horror.
这个部分就是恐怖电影最奇怪的一点
Like, we need to be able to identify
就好像我们需要认同
with that dark side of us that...
我们内心的黑暗面
Maybe wants to kill somebody sometimes.
也许我们会偶尔想杀人
I am an American. I got rights.
我是美国公民！我有权利！
Get the fuck out!
给我滚出去！
What I think is important and interesting
我认为《人皮客栈》很重要但有趣的一点是
about "Hostel" is that it doesn't allow the viewer
电影不允许观众
to feel that sense that the American
感觉到美国人能够
is exempt from implication in the War on Terror
在反恐战争中独善其身
and in the use of torture.
通过对酷刑折磨的应用
Who are you?
你是谁？
What the-- where the fuck am I?
怎么...我这是在哪？
I guess it's kind of like a pushback kind of?
我觉得这像是泼了桶冷水？
西尔维亚·索斯卡
编剧/导演 代表作《美国玛丽》
-Mm-hmm. -Like, oh, you think
-没错 -就像你以为...
you rule the world? You don't.
你能统治世界？你不能
The first extended scene of torture that we have
折磨戏里的第一段加长片段里
is of this kind of privileged
有这么一个带着优越感的
young, white American male.
年轻的美国白人男性
And we see his body kind of taken away
接着我们看到他的身体
secretively to this foreign torture center
被秘密地带到这个异国的酷刑中心
and tortured in an act that reminds us
在经受酷刑折磨的同时
of the extraordinary rendition program.
*度未签订引渡条约的两国之间 一方以不正当的方式引渡另一方国家公民 至本国接受本国法律审判
让我们想起*非常规引渡项目
And the viewer identifying with Josh
观众们与乔什感同身受
you know, is forced in a position
你知道，在这种情况下
of having to imagine themselves
被迫自己去想象
as being subject to torture.
想象被这样折磨
There are people that, you know
现实中有人会...你知道
watch torture videos.
会去看酷刑折磨视频
And you pay a certain amount
而且只要花费一定的价钱
and you can become Mr. Director.
就可以成为折磨的主导者
And the fact that that exists
光是这种交易存在的事实
internationally in much poorer countries
在国际上的贫困国家里
where, you know, maybe the parents have died
在这里，有些小孩的父母已经双亡
and the kids are easier to get
于是很容易被拐走
it's a really disgusting quality
这是存在于人性之中
that exists in humanity
一个非常令人厌恶的特性
that we don't even want to talk about.
而对此人们根本不想详谈
And I think that's why we just got a little
我想这就是为什么
Peek of a window into it in "Hostel."
在《人皮客栈》里窥到的一点点真相
And it was too much for most people to accept.
会让大部分人难以接受
The real world is much scarier than anything
真实的世界要恐怖得多
that Eli Roth or Stephen King could come up with.
伊莱·罗斯或斯蒂芬·金的作品都比不了
《Fangoria》杂志主编(1985-2010)
It's a really disturbing, sick, violent world
这是个令人不安、病态、充斥暴力的世界
we live in. Horror films reflect that.
恐怖电影则反映出这一切
And horror films are a way of people
恐怖电影也是人们
coming to terms with the violence in society
对社会上的暴力妥协的一种途径
trying to deal with it and trying to
想要处理好，想要...
you know, escape it a lot of ways.
你懂的，某种层面上逃离它
We're not allowed to be scared anywhere in life.
在生活中，我们不被允许流露恐惧
I hear from soldiers on military bases
我听说军事基地的士兵们
that were watching "Hostel"
都在看《人皮客栈》
and watching my films and screaming.
看着我的电影，尖叫着
And, like, they're dealing with death
就好像他们一直在面对死亡
but they're not allowed to be afraid.
但是不允许他们害怕
But for 90 minutes, you can be afraid and not be a coward.
但是在这90分钟里，你可以尽情害怕而不被当作懦夫
More than any other monster in horror
在所有其他怪物恐怖电影中
the slasher taps into our primal fear of the predator.
砍杀电影抓住了我们对捕食者原始的恐惧
And when that predator comes in human form
而当这个捕食者披上了人类的外皮
you have to wonder...
你不禁想道...
"Will I be the resourceful survivor..."
“我会是个机智的幸存者吗？”
"Or just another kill?"
“或着只是另一具尸体呢？”
He's gone.
他走了